chrisruzin.net :: French Military Victories (January 29, 2003)

My gosh you wont drop it will you. May 8th 1945 was VE day and still you didnt make up the total 4 years. So no i dont need to learn to add but perhaps you do. I am not arguing with you over something which is logically correct. Im not talking about YOUR website im talking about the anti French website. And no Sapper is going off at me so it does not make it a debate. No i dont think i have won anyting but you are entitled to your opinion. I simply want to stop talking about such rubbish.

And i am not reffering to YOU here. I say again i AM NOT REFERING TO YOU WHEN I SAY THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN AMERICA WHO BEND HISTORY TO THEIR LIKING . EG. BRAVEHEART-overexaggeration, Patriot-Overexaggeration and i dont want to get started on saving private ryan or pearl harbour, Again i am attacking the American media and people who like to the put the French down in such a way, And i intend not to offend you or or any other person who knows their stuff. Now shall we stop there.

I am not Australian, i am English, and i have studied alot of history and i know for a fact that Americans twist history. If i may ask you this question on account of the youth of today. Do you think that the majority of people aged between 10 years old and 18years old are going to be reading European history, or would they rather trust America’s media ? America has the most powerful economy in the world and their influence stretches across the world. So if any other country exploited that kind of influence then i would be opposing them, its not a personal prejudice i have against the Americans, but the reality is that they are influentially very powerful. That is why i cant stand them trying to make out that they won so many victories in their history.

Now talking about Sapper i couldn’t care less he was acting rude and obnoxious and not willing to accept anything i said. If im writting an essay in my end of year exams please feel free to contact me so i can send it over for you and sapper to spell check it yourselves. But when i am talking infromally about something so obvious then im not going to care much how i write my argument, as long as you get the message.

Now you said in your last statement:

I didn’t say the US fought for four years exactly. I said “nearly four years”.

Well maybe you should look at your reading abilities and see that i never said you did. I said:

“Still you didnt make up the total 4 years.”

In that line stated above i am making the intention of trying to explain to you that four years is usally how Americans ( that certain percentage who no nothing and like to round the amount of years off to the total of 4) like to think they were in the war. My appologies that i didnt verify that with alot more detail.

Your last parography does not insite hatred towards me or any offense at all. I dont mind the Australians, but if you have something against them then your talking to the wrong person. You make too many assumptions.

I dont think you even read my comments anymore because obviously i keep reading the same repetitive arguments over and over again. Punctuation and exemplary grammer doesnt matter in a measly forum, i mean if thats just the way you are then that fine, but dont expect everyone to treat your forum like their writting to save their lives. Now if one’s comment is shockingly poor, then i am 100% with you on that. As long as i get the message to you and those concerned then i am satisfied.

Again i am not talking about humanity and the human race, i am talking about the majority (more than half) of the youth in the world, who seem to be taken in with this whole concept of American mis-interpretation. Yes and i do agree with you when you say that other countries embrace their own cultures, but lets face it, do you really think that the people of China, Japan, Korea, Mid-east and Mexico think that Britain or Australia are any different than the Americans. In Mexico they dont say the English language, they say the American language. American influence is very strong and does give off
(at times) a bad example of other cultures. So if im as “gullible” as you seem to be thinking then you are truly in-experienced in other cultures. I have travelled every continent except for the America and Africa and i know from experience that when it comes down to history America will always make themselves play the role of the hero. But i think you are initially wrong when you say that all cultures do that. I have seen movies such as “the four feathers”, which was made under an Englishmen and shows their downfall. American globalisation has overcome most forms of industry. Coco cola, Mc Donalds and Microsoft are just a few, but these are just a few examples of American influence. Saving private ryan was a movie inspired by a British rescue mission of soldiers recently captured by the Nazi’s.

Finally all history is bias from every single point of view, no one will get it right. I agree with that. But when it is just blatantly making the other culture look stupid, it gets annoying.

<<Define “twist history”. If by that you mean make yourself look good in history, ALL countries do it! What country will try to make itself look like crap throughout its entire history? What country is going to downplay victories and focus on its demises? All countries are proud of victories in their past. Look at the Frenchmen who posted in this thread. They’re proud of their victories, and they should be! All countries focus on the better aspects of battles and wars. Don’t make it out to be an American thing.>>

Making yourself look good in history is one thing, making other countries look bad is another. The latter is an American thing, yes.

Stated by you:

“People aren’t as stupid or gullible as you seem to be thinking. You are a perfect example. “

I dont think we need to go any further into explaining why you think that i am gullible. You can call this your personal website but you can’t expect people to write in essay format. As i have said before as i say again, if for example i was to write :“Whys it the earth moves round the sun.” Now i agree with you that is shocking! But to simply say the following:

Examples of American movies which make the other culture look insignificant:

*Braveheart (A Paramount movie which makes William Wallace take out 100’s of Englishmen by a swing of his sword.)

*Pearl Harbour (Doesn’t make the Japanese look stupid, but it does show two pilots manage to shoot down an entire squadran of aircraft)

*Patriot (This movie really hits the core between what me and you are debating on. This is probably the most appaling movie i have ever laid eyes upon. Mel Gibson and his two sons who age up to about 11, kill 25 British soldiers. Now it wasn’t the fact that him and his sons were out to kill the British and save his other son from the gallows, but it was the way he did it. Three of them shot musket fire in two directions and on not one occasion did the British officer simply walk up the hill and shoot. Instead the officers were made out to simply look im amazment and dazzle round all scared of these heroic Americans.)

I admitt Mexico was a bad choice but the others weren’t. There is a strong American influence through todays American media which give bad vibes off Europe and so on. You cant tell me that the children and the teenagers today dont watch their cartoons or their sitcoms and pick up these American themes.

Again i do agree with you, that is Hollywood, But that doesn’t justify it at all. It still instill’s alot of Americanisation (If i may put it that way).

Bloody hell Winston, you could bore for England. Why not let it drop? Chris has the edge on you, this is what he does and you are clearly not in his league. Try a teenage forum and you can dazzle them with your brilliance. Please, please, please just go away.

Sapper you are biggest kiss ass i have ever seen in my life. Nobody care what you think because you obviously no nothing. Learn a bit of history and then maybe you can join this conversation.

Dont tell me that i am miss-understanding what you are saying. I dont comply with anything you say either, its known in the English language as a debate, arguement or discussion of oppinions. Now i implore you to read the following out loud to yourself:

“YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE” “YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE”

Next thing it will be “Well i didnt put it in capitals”.

No i am NOT backing down i apologized and changed a word. Only because you might take the word into a nother context. “Stupid”, you made the Viet Namese look pretty stupid in We were soldiers. You made the British look stupid in the Patriot. No in the last battle it showed no French soldiers (which there clearly were). It is apparant in this movie that a bunch of American militia beat one of the finest armies in the world. So there is the Patriot finished with.

Braveheart is inaccurate, but thats the whole point im making all these films are inaccurate and bias towards the wrong side. Which makes it “stupid”.

Now movies are fairy tales and fiction, but the ones based on actual events make a significant impact on the YOUTH of today. You just dont listen do you. How many times must i write it. If some 16 year old dumbass walked into a movie he would walk out with the impression that planes actually got off the ground in Pearl Harbour. When i was in World Youth Day in Canada in 2002, an American girl said to me “ didnt you just cry i Pearl Habour”. Now it was horrific event and the men and women who died deserved to be mourned but not through some shite movie like that. I am glad you agree with me on that.

American sitcoms and cartoons insight alot of humour which gives the bad impression on Europeans. Thats all. I’ve never been to the U.S and i dont know what that has to do with their influence, if above all things one would want to be as far away from America as possible when arguing over their influence. That is not an insult at all. I am simply saying that Europeans know when they are being seen differently by the U.S when they watch visuals, read books, and embrace American propoganda.

Man why didnt you drop it before then when i wanted to call it quits. But il agree to disagree, but if you want to continue to debate this then go right ahead.

I want to say sorry to Sapper as it was petty of me to insult you. However i can see nothing beyond your bias towards Chris. My intentions were to prove you wrong. Your opinion is your opinion and surely you know in your mind that your comment wasn’t to give me some friendly advice, but to try to put me down. I think maybe you should relax a little.

Winston, I am confused, where in this forum have I got history wrong? Pick your subject pal and I will wipe the floor with you, in a more intelligent and understandable manner. You write like a frustrated teenager. Go for a long jog, get the anger out of your system then try to type something other people might enjoy reading.

First of all this must be one of the longest threads about the stupid supposed joke on Google, where a search for ‘French Military Victories’ produces the response “Your search did not match any documents” and asks ‘Did you mean ‘French military defeats’?’ Oh, ha ha. How unimprovably witty and trenchant. How very ignorant and stupid.

The single most important French military victory in history was of course at Yorktown (accompanied by the related naval battle of the Chesapeake), where the Comte de Rochambeau on land (aided by the Marquis de La Fayette) and the Comte de Grasse by sea defeated British forces and so secured victory for the American colonists, changing the history of the entire world forever. The United States would not even exist if these victories had not happened. Do Americans really not know this stuff any more???

My irritation is partly because I like France and about which American neo-conservatives are especially absurd. For some reason ‘right-wing’ people are supposed to abominate France and foreigners in general. I have never really understood this.

There are of course plenty of other French military victories, from Valmy, Jena, Marengo, Friedland, and Austerlitz to the clashes that drove the Austrians out of Italy and the great battles on the Marne which stopped the Germans in 1914. And partly because, just at the moment, I am deep into a book ‘That Sweet Enemy’, which describes the curious relation between two of the world’s longest-enduring nations……..

The book, wittily and enjoyably written by an English historian and his French wife (Robert and Isabelle Tombs) has the charm of a lot of oblique history. Seen from a slightly different angle, events which you thought you knew about suddenly look different and often more interesting.

It is as if, after growing used to what you thought was a superb view of an ancient and fascinating city from a northerly hilltop, you one day travelled to the opposite side, and saw it for the first time from the south. It is the same place, but lit up and arranged in a way which makes you realise you had missed half the point before……….

To the long list of American military victories I suppose we may add Somalia in the early 1990’s, the Lebanon “Peace” mission in 1983 when they pulled out, whimpering, after a single bomb atrocity, the messy compromise on the Korean Peninsula, the outright defeat in Vietnam and – often conveniently forgotten – The Bay of Pigs debacle, brought about by their cowardly failure (out of a wholly irrational fear of Soviet retaliation) to provide serious air-cover to the invading force of American-funded, trained and backed Cuban exiles.

To be fair, they did make short work of the western hemisphere’s menacing military colossus and Communist powerhouse in the making – Grenada – and the CIA did a passable job against the Soviets in Afghanistan, albeit by training and arming some local gentlemen whose love for the American way of life turned out, in the end, to be more than a little conditional and now biting back …again.

No, this is not an anti-American tirade, just the standard riposte I developed for the occasional (attempted) neocon French-bashing rant which I encountered in the USA

But it is the American military failure of 1812-15, at least a failure when viewed in terms of her expansionist ambitions on the North American continent, which is most striking. U.S. attempts to invade and conquer poorly defended Upper and Lower Canada (and with them all of British North America) ended with not a tuft of grass gained, and a burned-out White House to boot. There is a cemetery in Toronto, where many of the British Troops who died defending the city (then known as York) in 1813 are buried. A large Union Flag flies over the graves, all year round. The “War of 1812” is known to most Canadian school Children as something of an early-Canadian military victory; perhaps not surprisingly you will struggle to meet a single American – school age or otherwise – who has even heard of this conflict.

Warts and all, at least the French know the history of their own country.

Your“defeat” list is full of holes but first of all, how in the world can you associate “the Moors in Spain” with a French defeat (speaks volumes about your “knowledge” of French history)? And, ironically, have you ever heard of the battle of Tours, one of the most significant victories of western civilization, won by the Franks over the Arabs?

As for one of your readers “defying” us to list a French victory free of third party assistance (nations often formed military alliances in those days), you got to hand the guy a trophy for Moron of the year. Since the French Revolution is mentioned and mocked upon as a “defeat”, I’m positive he (and you) have never heard of Valmy (a victory of crucial importance, read about it)? Without a ragtag French army defeating the combined forces of Austria and Prussia (and the blessing of England), revolutionary France would have been on her knees, and you would have never heard of Napoleon. By the way, if Napoleon “wasn’t French” (a French-bashing favorite), can you name at least one of his many brilliant French generals who did the dirty work for him? I thought so.

With all due respect to Legion, Yorktown wasn’t the “single most important” French military victory. You could start with Sir Edward Creasy’s well-known essay “15 Most Decisive Battles” in which 5 are French (4 if you consider the Normans as not fully French), and that’s without Napoleon’s victories (Waterloo takes the credit instead).

Chris, thanks for posting my comments and forgive my “smugness”. Petty jokes against the French don’t bother me, gross ignorance of History and intellectual laziness does. Americans (such as the many readers who posted here) do not understand the vast history and complexity of a nation (France in this case) who has had 2000 years of warfare, with many defeats and many victories as well (France in its heydays was a world bully). They also do not understand what it’s like to lose 1.6 million soldiers in just 5 years (1/30 of its entire population. An entire generation wiped out) on their soil and the devastating after-effect of the carnage that was WW1 (where the French did fight very hard, please have some respect). I’m sorry but this is true.